TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Alles rund um das Tuning der TDR

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cinek100
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TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von cinek100 »

Hello I've bought TDR 2002 originally imported from Austria 7kW, 80 km/h, CDI 4GX looks like a french 4FU

After derestricted [powerwalve fully opened, removed catalyser from pot] It reach maximum speed 115 km/h at 9.500 RPM.The question: is it particular version Tdr has this characterisctics that goes only 115km/h?Or there are still different restrictions or differences between construcion my TDR and others originally derestricted versions [ex. french models where max speed is 130 km/h]
Front 100/90 18''
Rear 130/80 17''

2.Sprockets standard :

16x57 [I've counted]

3.Geatrs ratio also standard [according to Typenschien book] :

Primary reduction 3.227
Secondary reduction 3,56

1 gear 2,83
2 gear 1,88
3 gear 1,41
4 gear 1,14
5 gear 0,96
6 gear 0,82
You can answer a post in Deutsch.I'll be gratefull for help:]
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von schubsi »

Hello...

Where do you come from?
What are your body data? Height? Weight?

The power of your TDR is fully normal, look at the chart:
TDR-L.jpg
TDR-L.jpg (26.47 KiB) 12743 mal betrachtet
Here you see how much power you need (red and blue) to reach the different speeds.
For example you see the dyno chart of a user's bike, green and yello, hp and torque.
The biggest problem is air resistance.
If you want to reach 130 km/h you will need to have 28 or up to 33 hp (if you are a tall and heavy guy).
The derestricted TDR normally have ~ 22 hp...

I am always talking about real speeds and not what speedometer is showing (lying) you (real speed + ~ 7 km/h).

Some posts at the internet ("my TDR runs 130 km/h") are sometimes products of TDR driver's dreams ;)

115 km/h is the correct speed at 9500 rpm with original 16/57 sprockets, it can go some faster after hi tech tuning (more rpm) but then it's running in "red zone" of tacho, perhaps 125 km/h @ 10.500 rpm, which is not a really good idea.

I sometimes reach more speed than 115 km/h on the autobahn, it does not make much fun because the TDR is then unstable. It is not constructed for these speeds. So do not waste too much time about max. hi speed.

regards

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cinek100
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von cinek100 »

Thank You for an answer.I'm from Poland.I'm 100 kg weight and 184 cm tall.My speedo show 115 km/h max and tacho 9500 RPM. The real speed measured few days ago with GPS device is 125 km max at 9500 RPM, so speedo is wrong.I derestricted exhaust - removed catalyser,ripped silencer and inverted powerwalve- that's all.TDR accelarates to 120 km/h fluently and fast so I assume that it have approximately 25 hp.I must adjust the carburetor [from DT version] because TDR start accelerates over 5000 RPM for example on 3rd gear and up to 5000 acellerate very slowly.Despite it's a 2stroke, I think It's wrong.What do You think about this Schubsi?
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von schubsi »

Hi...

If the GPS data are correct then not only speedo is incorrect but tacho possibly is this too.
Was the GPS device onboard on your TDR or by parallel driving car?

Think about: The speedo/ tacho are mechanic devices so they are not really exact. If the bike was sleeping the last years in a bad environment the grease inside could be hardened!
cinek100.jpg
cinek100.jpg (129.59 KiB) 12693 mal betrachtet
This is screenshot of Geardata.exe, again: 115 km/h real speed at 9500 real rpm are correct! 125 km/h at 9500 rpm is wrong, so perhaps there is a measurement fault at the GPS device...

100kg/184cm are near the same to me (115/182), so we can compare: My 5AN runs with me on board 115 km/h max if I have no headwind, I prefer to sit upright ;)

So I think, the "power data" of your 4GX are ok and normal. If there would be a defect the power of the engine would be less...

The acceleration under 5000 rpm is on every Minarelli (DT/TDR/KTM/SACHS) more ore less slowly. The engine is not an 4stroke but a 2stroke and 2stroke have a typical behavior. If you want a bigger usable rpm range, you have to buy an 4stroke bike ;)
Because of better combination/configuration (inside pipes and nozzles) you should better search for an real TDR TM28SS carburator than change any nozzle. The DT carburator has many different nozzles than TDR one, also some not replaceable!!!

Did I complete all questions?

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cinek100
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von cinek100 »

Yes, GPS was onboard TDR.I have one more question.I have my previous tm28ss and almost is fine, but my float is deformed by "mechanic" :[The float in tm28ss is slightly different than in my current tm28-92/1.In tm28ss/1 float metal piece need to be bend in different angle to idle valve seat [not 90 degrees].But I can't get it anywhere on internet.Look on video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFNUtW_ ... e=youtu.be
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von schubsi »

Yes, GPS was onboard
OK, then I suspect that the GPS is a cheap one or it had very bad signal reception while measuring.
float
I understand your problem.

The TDR carburettor ist special: The channel inside is oblique. You can not use the other float from standard tm28....

I dont know how to help you, you have to look out for an original TDR TM28SS. You can identify it on the #270 main nozzle.
At de-ebay there is one announced, but expensive: 99 € :shock:

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cinek100
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von cinek100 »

Hi again.I need to adjust fuel state level in carburetor chamber.The manual has not precise picture .What do You think??Which is the correct mark on the carburetor body .Green or blue arrow on the picture?I'm going to set 1.5 mm below the mark in tm28-92/1.

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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von schubsi »

I see the "blue" arrow as correct, following the Bucheli repair manual you have to set the fuel level 1.5 - 2.5 mm lower than the upper edge of the chamber.

The logic:
Look inside the chamber, there is an upright tube in the middle. This is the point of the owerflow. The fuel should not go out of carburator even if you lay down the bike nearly at the side.

If you tilt the chamber in "normal condition" like on riding the bike through the curves and breaking and accelerating the fuel must not go out through this pipe --> This upper end of the tube is some over the "pivot point".

Did you look at the pictures of the german "Bucheli" TDR repair manual? Or Haynes?

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cinek100
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von cinek100 »

Thank You.Yes I read Bucheli verlag, I used google translate.Now I know enough about adjusting carburetor to set fuel level state in fuel chamber.Current level state is a little bit above red arrow so i assume that fuel consumption is higher that normal.The float state is 16 mm , idle is on 4th set.Returning to Vmax subject.You prooved your opinion with arguments.But I measured again speed with same GPS device [Xiaomi Redmi note 2], and showing the same result.I think GPS should work correctly , always repeatable.Navi on screen represent exactly what is on area ,very close.Do You think it's possible ?Mayby tacho is broken?The exhaust is original but derestricted completly.
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von schubsi »

cinek100 hat geschrieben:fuel chamber.Current level state is a little bit above red arrow
I think it is too high.
Everytime you ride the carburetor will drip, and drip, and drip, you lost fuel, not much but continously
so i assume that fuel consumption is higher that normal.
My TDR is in top condition and I am able to ride about 220 km with normal fuel switch...fuel consumption is about 4.5 l per 100 km (measured latest 1100 km, mixed urban and suburban traffic, 100% overland road is less - about 3.7 l per 100 km, soft style, not race ;) ).
Returning to Vmax subject.You prooved your opinion with arguments.But I measured again speed with same GPS device [Xiaomi Redmi note 2], and showing the same result.I think GPS should work correctly , always repeatable.Navi on screen represent exactly what is on area ,very close.Do You think it's possible ?Mayby tacho is broken?The exhaust is original but derestricted completly.
Physics and Mathematics can not be deceived.
Look at the Screenshot of GEARDATA ...

the RED ZONE is set to 9500 rpm, 6th gear displays 115 km/h "max speed"
below that --> calculation area shows 6th gear --> 10.000 rpm at 121 km/h

with standard sprockets 16 / 57 these are the calculated values !!! ;)
You can - if your engine is in excellent condition - change sprockets perhaps to 17 / 57, then your bike will go faster: 122 km/h at 9.500 rpm.
GEARDATA considers also the slip, about 3% !!!

I don't know what this "chinese thing" calculates: My many tests using bike GPS (2 x of type GARMIN) confirmed the correct calculation of GEARDATA...

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cinek100
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von cinek100 »

I dont know what is my TDR fuel consumption.I'll check after adjusting carburetor.If engine has 9 bar that means is in good condition?Second thing is that fuel reserve is not working.When fuel is over and i when I set fuel valve on RES mark - engine work maybe 1 km and kaput.So I need to be carrefull and control fuel tank. Regarding to Vmax I suggested my opinion also on this subject on french forum http://www.yam2stroke.fr/viewtopic.php? ... a&start=30 posted by phifi, , but it does'nt matter right now.
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Re: TDR 4GX derestricted and Vmax only 115km /h

Beitrag von schubsi »

cinek100 hat geschrieben:If engine has 9 bar that means is in good condition?
If bike runs real 115 km/h on demand (!) means the engine is in good condition
Second thing is that fuel reserve is not working.When fuel is over and i when I set fuel valve on RES mark - engine work maybe 1 km and kaput.
you want to restore factory default: remove the connection adapter under the fuel tank (2 screws) and set in there 2 small filter tubes, one short and one long, then "reserve" is working again. Do not use air pressure anymore in direction to the fuel tank "to clean the gasoline hose" ... :roll:

If you search for parts look at this: https://www.bike-parts-yam.de , perhaps the are other languages supported
Regarding to Vmax I suggested my opinion also on this subject on french forum http://www.yam2stroke.fr/viewtopic.php? ... a&start=30 posted by phifi, , but it does'nt matter right now.
I don't know why phifi answers in this way... That does not bother me!

My answers are confirmed by my experience, GEARDATA and M$ EXCEL, you can calculate this by yourself if you want and if you are able to do this.

By law all speedometer have to show at least 7 km/h more than real speed, "normal" speedo shows 120 km/h -> real 112-113 km/h . Perhaps this is phifi's fault...

You can believe what you want...

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